Yusuf Olaolu Ali, SAN is one of the most prominent lawyers in Nigeria. In this interview, the silk speaks on the state of the nation, the appropriate sanctions for acts of corruption as well as many other topical issues. Excerpts.
How did Nigeria get to this present sorry state?
The country has several challenges. Challenge of insecurity, challenge of unemployment and under-employment, challenge of failed infrastructure and recently we added the problem of shortage of petroleum products, so our situation is very gloomy and don’t forget naira has been on spiral fall. It is unfortunate that Nigerians are under siege. We are under economic and social siege, of course other challenges are there like kidnapping, armed robbery and so on.
It is a systemic failure. Failure of leadership and followership, corruption in high and low places, lack of transparency in the way government does its business, so it is a huge problem caused by Nigerians and assisted by some foreign collaborators. Impunity has also played a major role. Nigerians are their own worst enemies. Nigeria is deeply religious but godless, we only pay lip services to our faiths. Corruption is caused my Muslims and Christians, you hardly sees anyone who does not believe in any of these faiths in public office, it is either you are a Muslim or a Christian. We are a very wicked people; we don’t care if our neighbour dies as long as we survive. That is not a right attitude. But the preaching of every religion says we should love our neighbour as ourselves. Nigerians don’t.
Some Nigerians have described the current war on corruption by the Federal Government as selective, what is your position on this?
My answer all along about this is that let somebody start something. If Jonathan’s government has been selective in its own fight against corruption maybe this thing would have reduced. There was no fight against corruption during Jonathan’s time. My position is that we are where we are today because of corruption and we must battle it because it is an unusual disease which also deserves unusual treatment. But as a lawyer, I say this with caveat, every fight against corruption must be fought within the ambit of the law, otherwise, we end up fighting one disease and creating another one. My position is anyone found guilty of corruption must be killed. Corrupt people must be given Chinese treatment. In China, if you are found guilty of corruption, you are killed. That is my position, but in doing that let us follow the rule of law.
How do you feel when you hear reports of fellow SANs being accused of bribery?
My attitude is that they are just mere allegations so far because nobody has been convicted for bribing a judge, not any lawyer of note that I know. People can raise allegations and people are entitled to defend themselves. So far, nothing has been proved against anybody. Until there is a proven case, they are all allegations. I do not subscribe to media trial or trial by mob. That is my position, but if any lawyer is found guilty of bribing a judge, he should face the consequences of the law.
The Chairman of EFCC also alleged that SANs are a clog in the wheel of the anti-corruption war, what is your reaction to this?
I want to advise the Chairman of EFCC that generalization of allegation is a very dangerous thing to do. You cannot hold a man liable for doing his constitutional duty. It is a wrong approach for men in the security services to believe that once a person is arrested for an offence he is not entitled to be defended and that any lawyer who comes to defend the person is part of the problem. It is an unwarranted upside down thinking. We all have our roles under the law.
I want to advise the Chairman of EFCC that he should tread softly. I will not support any lawyer to pervert the course of justice, but all these sweeping allegations will not help the course of EFCC. There are honest and upright lawyers and they are many.
If a poor man steals a handset in Nigeria, he will probably not get a good lawyer to defend him, but if a governor or a senator steals billions, he will get the best lawyers to defend himself in court, is this fair?
That is the way capitalism works anywhere in the world. We are practicing a capitalist system in Nigeria. Anywhere in the world where capitalism is practiced, only the rich get the best. How many poor people have money to buy a plane, how many poor people are members of Ikoyi club? In any country where you practice capitalism, that is what to expect. Engagement of a lawyer is a contract. If you have the money you engage a lawyer of your choice. Anywhere in the world where you have capitalism, only the rich and well to do get the best services.
Many Nigerians are complaining that the promise of change by the present administration is taking too long; do you share this opinion?
The simple answer is that it is easier to destroy than to build. The rot in this country is so much that even if you are moving at the speed of light there is little you can achieve because it takes a lot of time to build. Look at the issue of power for example. They faulted the hike in tariff but if you don’t hike tariff the private people will not invest their money in the sector. I am surprised that the Senate stopped it. We should not subject everything to politics. With respect, the Senate was wrong. These are technical issues, if you have problem with it, first get educated. Nigerians just like popular opinions.
Are you comfortable with the frequency with which President Buhari travels out for official engagements?
The man has to familiarize himself. When last was he in government? He has to be known, he is the face of the country. When he travels, it does not mean that work is not going on, what is the work of the Vice- President and the Ministers? The President can give directive from anywhere in the world as long as he is healthy.
Some have called for the arrest and prosecution of former President Goodluck Jonathan, are you in support of that?
Have you found anything against him? That was how they said they should try Shagari. The man was detained but nothing was found against him. I am not saying that Jonathan is blameless but there must be something against him before you make calls for his arrest. Nigerians just like to call for the blood of anyone who is out of power. But if anything is found against him then, yes.
If you are asked to advise the Federal Government on how to move Nigeria forward, what will you say?
We should avoid policy somersault. If the former administration does something good, you should not jettison it. Secondly, there must be legislation of government policies that is why the American system is enduring. Anything the President wants to do is translated into legislation, so if a new administration comes, it has to repeal the law before it can undo the policy. But here in Nigeria, people just cancel policies. For example, proper legislation must back TSA. There must be legislation to back all major government policies. Again, we should know that if we don’t get power right, this country is dead. You cannot go anywhere if you don’t get power right. The health system must also be put right. You cannot stop people from seeking medical attention abroad if you don’t put your health sector right.
As for roads, the Federal Government should just give them to private people who will build and collect toll. Let’s have good roads as they have in America and UK and we toll. I will suggest that all the critical infrastructures should be privatized. Government should also step up the fight against corruption and also work on moral reorientation.